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Frostburn is Dead. Long Live Icicles!

Tuesday, July 16 2013 at 7:32am CDT

I've had this post ready for a couple of days waiting for the PTR update that included the change. Here's how the new Mastery works (some of this may have been laid out in official notes or datamined info, but I don't know as I'm writing this how complete they'll be).

Context

Several other changes are being made in conjunction with the Mastery change:

  1. Frostbolt no longer increases its own damage. It still applies the debuff, and its own damage is not being increased. However, as you'll see from the Mastery information below, its effective damage is now being increased by the new Mastery.
  2. Ice Lance damage is being increased by 29%. If you previously had +40% Mastery, this works out to about an 8% reduction across the board. By comparison, the first PTR change to Frostburn would have not affected damage with FOF procs, but would have reduced damage vs frozen targets by about 29%.
  3. Waterbolt damage is being increased by 9%. Again, if you previously had +40% Mastery, this is a reduction of about 22%. But as with Frostbolt, see below for the way the new Mastery affects it.

Mechanics

Every Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and Waterbolt that deals damage to a target now generates an Icicle of 1.5% the damage of the original spell per point of Mastery.

So say you have 20 Mastery. With Frostburn, this would have increased damage to frozen targets by 40%. With Icicles, it will generate Icicles that store 30% of the damage you deal with each Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, or Waterbolt.

You can store up to five Icicles. Each Icicle has an individual duration of 15 seconds. They are used in one of two ways:

  1. When you cast Ice Lance, you will immediately begin to discharge your Icicles. They will launch at the target the Ice Lance hit, at the rate of one per second (adjusted by haste), until they are gone.
  2. If you generate a new Icicle when you already have five, the oldest will immediately launch at the target hit by the spell that generated the new Icicle, and the new one will be stored.

A simple way to look at it is this: Icicles is like Ignite, if you were able to save up some Ignite damage and deliver it to any target on demand.

Visuals

  • The Icicles hover around the head, kind of like Soul Shards.
  • They float in launch position, and when launched, they shoot out of their slots, looking much like little Ice Lances, with a similar travel speed.
  • There is some concern that the whole thing is too visually "busy," and the devs are interested in feedback on this point.

Example

Let's say you've got 24 Mastery and 35% haste. You'll store Icicles worth 36% of the damage of your triggering spells, meaning when full up, you're going to have damage worth [i]around[/i] 1.8x the average damage of those spells held in reserve.

When you cast Ice Lance, you'll then dump that damage into the target in the space of about 3.7 seconds, plus any charges you accrue while the originals are launching.

What this accomplishes

  • It makes the value of Mastery much more similar in PvE and PvP.
  • It preserves some of the kit of Frostburn by beefing up Ice Lance damage.
  • It preserves and enhances the "hasty" kit of Frost without actually adding any haste.
  • It does what it does in a less bursty manner than Frostburn.

Q&A

Q: Do the Icicles crit?
A: No. Like Ignite, their damage is simply a percentage of the spell that creates. them. A 160,000 Frostbolt crit will create an Icicle with twice as much stored damage as an 80,000 Frostbolt hit.

Q: Do Icicles use the normal spell hit chance?
A: Yes. The devs are aware that this double-dips the chance to miss, but given how consistently people are maxed on hit, they think it probably doesn't matter much. That said, this answer was qualified with "currently."

Q: Are Icicles modified by damage-increasing or -decreasing effects or debuffs?
A: Yes. Damage is calculated as if the original spell was not affected by such effects, and then appropriate damage increases/decreases are applied to the Icicle based on the target's state when the Icicle is used.

Q: Can Icicles trigger on-damage procs?
A: No.

Q: Are they treated as periodic damage?
A: No. Each Icicle is effectively a single direct-damage spell cast.

Q: What if I have a shit-ton of haste?
A: Then the Icicles will launch very quickly. There isn't really any minimum interval. They're not bound by any sort of global cooldown.

Q: Do I get Icicles from healing the Water Elemental, which I have named "Squirt" as all right-thinking Mages do?
A: No.

Q: Will Alter Time restore Icicles state?
A: Yes. You could have a full stack, Alter Time, cast Ice Lance so that your stack is expended, and the stack will be restored when Alter Time expires.

Q: Are Icicles dispellable?
A: No.

Conclusion

I expect this to be somewhat controversial. There are people who are very much attached to the single-target instant burst damage that the current (live) Mastery provides. 

However, it also addresses some longstanding problems with the huge difference in damage against frozen vs non-frozen targets and the difference in Mastery's value in PvE vs PvP. It preserves some kit by still attaching extra damage to Ice Lance, and enhances the hasty flavor of Frost by essentially putting a rapid-fire rocket pod on your shoulder. 

What do you think?

Comments

Submitted by Citizenpete on

I really have to test it, but here are some first and quick thoughts about it:

  • Frostbolt debuff for IL and WE not gone is pretty disappointing (So many target switches in SoO so far). Not fun!

  • The idea sound interesting, seems like to match our frosty topic

  • Casting BF FFB may feel underwhelming now

  • As I understand the whole new Frostburn, I don´t have to care about it. "It works by itself"?

  • What about opening burst? With tons of FoF Proc and Alter Time? Dunno how this should work - yet!

  • Waterbolt tied to the new mastery sound weird and frightening in connection with the 15% debuff (again, target switch!)

Conclusion by just reading patch notes and your explanation (Thank you by the way): Scaling may adressed, burst is adressed, but one of our biggest issues beside scaling, the debuff and the target switch, are not adressed!

Greetings,

Pete

Submitted by Nathyiel on

Same here.

It sound interresting.

General reflections :

  • BF-FBB is only better than Frostbolt because it's instant and a guaranteed crit.
  • FoF-IL will be way to big: IL big damage + succesive stack
  • IL chain casting won't produce Icycle. Only Waterbolt at the rate of once every 1.5s/2s (2.5s minus haste)
  • FB's debuff give us a double ramp-up mechanics + target swwitching nightmare
  • how is it interracting with glyph of Icy veins ?
  • how is it interracting wi Alter Time ?

Cleave reflections :

  • IL's cleave will still be good because of the 29% buff
  • it still restricted by FB's debuff

AOE reflextion :

  • shatter bomb/firestrike/CoC isn't possible anymore
  • how Icycle is generated/release on AOE stituation
  • if there's no target (aoe reticle), how Icycle is release ?

First proposition :

  • remove Frostbolt's debuff & buff BF-FFB and Waterbolt. it make BF-FFB a wanted cast.
  • switch IL and FFB in Icycle interraction. making stack on FoF-IL can help stacking big Icycle. releasing on BF-FFB can help create burst.
  • make it stack on Blizzard

Submitted by Tiga on

Shatter still exists...it's just that there's no Frostburn component to it, so a shattered Nether Tempest will do the same damage as one from a fire mage and less damage than one from an arcane mage (since Mana Adept affects all spells). Still, it's a huge nerf to our AOE in situations where shatter can currently be used and I'm very sad to see that go without any kind of compensation for the loss. You'll still want to shatter Flamestrikes etc, but the payoff is much smaller. See my suggestion about Cone of Cold releasing a multitarget Icicles though. Thinking further, CoC alone isn't enough, so they could add a chance to Blizzard ticks to fire one multitarget Icicle too and that would give our mastery a small AOE component. Make these procs "on crit" instead of just hits and it makes shattering AOE more meaningful again.

Submitted by Nathyiel on

No, you idea about CoC release is good, it's just lack a charging mechanics

Let charge with Blizzard (each tick have a % chance to generate a charge) then CoC clear them all at the nearest target or a random one.

The problem : glyph of CoC will be mandatory (like a lot of frost glyph actually).

Submitted by Tiga on

Assuming we had Icicle volley procs from Blizzard & CoC: AOE rotation Icicle charges would come from spent BF procs (bomb on at least one target) and Waterbolt (lower damage, but still nice if spread over 10+ targets). In an AOE rotation, you may still want to use FoF procs for IL cleave, but you probably prefer to drain off Icicle charges from BF FFB before you use IL (which will drain all of them).

As far as CoC is concerned, I would remove the current glyph and buff CoC scaling so that it does slightly more damage than Arcane Explosion. It has a cooldown and it only hits in a frontal cone, so it deserves a to do more damage even though it has a snare component to it. If you want a CoC glyph, the glyph could be one that increases range, but since there's already a glyph like that for AE, it might make sense to have the AE glyph extend the range of both spells, thus making that glyph more interesting (and also allowing AE-spam mages to mix in CoC on cooldown for slightly better damage - no matter what spec).

CoC was already doing less damage than AE in 5.2. At the moment it does a lot less and I don't feel it's worth a glyph slot under any conditions. If it didn't have the snare, I would just forget I have the spell at all.

Submitted by Tiga on

It would be nice if the mastery could have some scaling with AOE as well. In terms of Icicles, Cone of Cold (the spell that Blizzard seems to have forgotten to buff in 5.3) could generate one icicle based on the total damage done. Probably too deadly in PvP... so alternatively it could consume one icicle, reduce its power (50% for example) and make it hit all the targets that CoC hit (much less burst, better AOE).

I guess I'll test on the PTR if I can... Just having read the description and not tried it yet: here are some thoughts:

Waterbolt is going to generate some really low power icicles. Since the elemental is casting independently, it's making quite a lot of them. Looking at our achievement kill of Primordius (100% tank and spank with zero movement and no special buffs or debuffs) on Wednesday, the elemental cast 188 Waterbolts. I cast 130 Frostbolts and 45 Frostfire Bolts (175 total). So that's 363 Icicles total for the encounter, discharged with 57 Ice Lances and the occasional Frostbolt from overflow. More than half of these are "Weaksauce Edition" Icicles from the Water Elemental Waterbolts.

Assuming that only Frostbolt and Ice Lance release Icicles, I'm a bit worried about these weaker Icicles overwriting stronger ones in some situations. What if the player isn't able to hit anything, but the water elemental is (say the boss banishes the player for 10 seconds)? Do the more powerful Icicles in your queue get overwritten by weak ones? Now that would be bad/sad...

In PvP, a player charging up for burst will probably not want any of the weaker Icicles cluttering up the queue if they can potentially fill it with Frostbolt and FFB Icicles. Not sure if this is an actual problem or not, but Blizzard should try to avoid a mechanic that makes players want to put the pet on passive.

Submitted by Nathyiel on

There's no overwritting because it's just delayed damage.

Instead of the boring "increase Frost damage by x%", it's more : "increase damage by x% but store it and realese it after the next IL."

For PvP, is Icicle generate through crit on DF will be this low ??

Submitted by Malon on

Like Tiga, I'm concerned with what the change will mean for our AoE spells - which, let's be honest, have been struggling to keep up with other classes throughout Mists. Tab-targetting Bombs and Shattering a Flamestrike is good damage (and Frozen Orb is amazing, of course), but without the damage buff that FS will be much weaker.

I quite like Tiga's suggestion of a multi-target Icicle, or perhaps just one that 'bursts' when it hits the primary target.

Not building (strong) Icicles when we're in IL-spam mode (usually after using FO, especially in multi-target situations) will also be annoying. You either cast FrB and potentially waste FoF procs, or build weak Icicles from Waterbolt. The latter option is probably best but, again, it won't be very helpful in AoE situations.

What happens when your primary target dies before all your Icicles are released? Do they carry on firing at a new target, stay banked or vanish?

All that said, I'm feeling much more positive about this implementation than Frostburn.

Submitted by Sombrelune on

I m very disapointed. Blizzard says earlier that they don't want to mage big gameplay changes within an expansion and now this.

Icelance is our mastery launcher but i must stack 3 frostbolts debuff to efficiently damage a new target?

I must handle 2 ramp up really?

In pve the waterbuilder is ok with our second way of lauching, but in pvp why will I want it to cast his warterbolt then? It will lower my burst by a lot.

How do I maximise Alter time now? 3 stacks of frostbolt + 5 stacks of new mastery + 2 fof + 1 FFB ??

Frostburn affected 3 spells in pve tha represented 50% of our dps. Icicle affect 3 spells too, but tha represent, at first glance, less than that.

Morever frostburn improved our cleaves, but icicle no.

I wonder how this mastery can feel frosty? What will we be good at, in pve?

Patchwerk fight? no more no less than others?

Cleaves fight? Less than before ( and we were in the standards no more)

Aoe fight? without freezable target frostburn=icicle= 0, with freezable target frostburn > Icicle = 0

Target switching? The frostbolt debuff is still there ( and i didn't see a frostbolt increased damage for the loss of the debuff for frostbolt), and if the target die before the lasts icicles? so frostburn > icicle

So this is the death of Frosburn or Frost ?

Submitted by Lhivera on

I've updated the post with some new information:

1) Each icicle has an individual duration. They don't share a duration that gets refreshed when you gain new icicles. Once an icicle is generated, it has an individual duration of 15 seconds. This really impacts the ability people have discussed to save up big ones.
 
2) They did revise the damage reduction thing. Icicle damage will be calculated based on the damage the generating spell would have done in the absence of any damage-modifying effects on the target, positive or negative. Those effects will then apply when the icicle hits the target. So if a target gains a vulnerability effect after an icicle is generated but before it is launched, it will benefit from that effect. If the target loses such an effect, the icicle will lose damage accordingly. Basically just means part of their final damage is calculated when they're used, for better or worse.

Submitted by Tiga on

I thought 200 mastery rating was going to give 1% Icicle mastery, but it turns out the scaling is 400 mastery for 1%. That's way too expensive and a big nerf compared to live. At 200 mastery for 1% it would be a buff and mastery and haste would be about equal in value. I don't see how they intend these values to be viable.

At least my spreadsheet seems accurate and if I use 400 mastery rating for 1%, it correctly predicts that 10% of my damage is from the mastery. It was estimating 20% with the cheaper mastery, which I think would have made the new mastery a roughly 5% buff vs. live. Now it's a 5% nerf vs. live and the mastery scaling is complete garbage. I suppose 300 mastery for 1% would make it equal to live, but at that point, mastery still remains worse than crit.

The graphics are nice enough, but with my camera zoomed out the way it normally is, I'm not going to be able to see any of the icicles. There's also no visible buff or UI elements for them, so I don't know if we'll be able to have WeakAuras for them. Definitely something that some people will want to have, but it's also understandable that while this new mastery isn't set in stone and is still on the PTR, it doesn't need to have everything implemented.

Also: I'm glad that I don't really PvP anymore. I don't see how it could be viable for PvP with these numbers and mechanics.

Submitted by Lhivera on

You can't just compare the point value. The new Mastery applies to a greater percentage of our damage. It is still too low, I think, but Rating per Percentage Point isn't enough information to determine that.

Submitted by Tiga on

I was calculating how much of the damage was from mastery using a spreadsheet and then on the PTR did a short test on a target dummy. The spreadsheet told me that only about 10% of my damage would be from mastery when it should have been closer to 20% in order for this not to be a PvE nerf vs. live. Before I tried it, I erroneously used 200 mastery per % as the value and the numbers looked fine - it was a noticeable, but not huge buff vs. current PvE and mastery  came out equal to haste at my gear level, which is entirely healthy and good considering that I'm stacking haste and was only taking mastery because everything else is worse.

The spreadsheet was based on damage done in a 5.3 encounter. I reversed the effects on mastery on the spells (easy enough to do) to get pre-mastery ratios and then applied Icicles mastery & other scaling changes (like the Ice Lance buff) to that. From those numbers, it then predicts the damage increases gained from adding 300 rating to each secondary stat, one stat at a time. The result is a DPS percentage increase and I essentially get relative secondary stat weights for my gear level & reforging & gemming.

I'm not comparing 400 mastery / % with the 300 mastery / % on live. Like you say, that's apples vs. oranges. I'm comparing it with my calculations based on 1% Icicles requiring 200, 300 or 400 mastery. 400 is clearly unviable. 300 might be OK, but might still be a nerf vs. live. 200 would be a buff vs. live and it's interesting because it makes mastery a good stat for frost and frost sorely needs two secondary stats that scale well.

The issue with frost scaling is that we're now using our worst secondary stat (mastery) because everything else is getting capped. Polarthief on MMO Champion forums says that there's something else coming for frost that will address the capping issues. Let's hope so.

All mage stats scale about equally with haste. There's nothing special about haste as a good stat for frost. Crit is very special for fire, but haste is still good. That means fire hast two good secondary stats and one weak one (with crit being too good for its own sake, so it gets tuned nearly every patch). Mastery is great for arcane, but haste is OK too. Again, two good stats where the worse one is probably as good as haste for frost.

I shouldn't be ignoring intellect though, because every upgrade includes intellect. If frost scaled better than fire or arcane with intellect, then that might make up somewhat for the lack of great secondary stat scaling. I'm not sure it does and if it does, it's probably not enough.

It's totally unacceptable to introduce a new mastery and expect people to play it if it's a nerf in every single respect compared to what is currently on live when Frost is once again considered to be behind the other two specs in high end gear. If anything, the new mastery needs to be slightly OP when introduced or people will not touch it with a long stick. If these changes end up throwing frost back into the era of Torment The Weak builds in early/mid WOTLK, I may well just end up unsubscribing and walking away in disgust this time.

Submitted by Citizenpete on

Puh okay,  with "Spoils of Pandaria", "Thok the Bloodthirsty" and Raid Dummy testing, I spent approx 5 hours with the new Frost Mastery. A quick summary:

- Frostbolt debuff has to go or otherwise Frost will not be a viable spec in SoO (Multi target boss fights)

- More spells than Frostbolt, Frostfirebolt and Waterbolt should store Icicles (benefit from mastery). "Spoils of Pandaria" perfectly showed Frost´s weakness. The new ´mastery with a lot of target switching and a lot of multidotting is not working well for Frost (Tries with only 3 - 5% percent Icicles damage). Ice Lance, Blizzard, Frozen Orb, Cone of Cold and the Bombs should benefit from mastery.

- Frost still scales poorly. On the pull with amplifier Trinket and Wusho 2.0 Fire and Arcane pulled 1 - 1.3 million DPS, frost around 500 - 600k with ilvl 540! As mentioned before, more spells should benefit from our new mastery. Even after a few minutes, the gap was very huge between frost and the other two specs, no matter what kind of fight (Spoils or Thok).

- Not the oldest icicle , the weakest one should fired automaticly. Icicles should not launched by ice lance, they should launched by a spell that is off the GCD (maybe a reworked deep freeze?)

- Lost a few icicles during Spoils of Pandaria, because of target switch and adds dying pretty fast, which felt not rewarding.  Icicles should refresh.

- Frostbolt need to be nerfed (if more spells will benefit from mastery) or BF FFB need to be buffed. This is not about numbers, it´s about the feeling. Back in Cataclysm, a "Finger of Frost Brain Freeze Frostfirebolt" hit like a truck . Let me always grin like a Cheshire cat everytime I had it up (and Deep Freeze was the other one :p )  

- Letting Waterbolt benefit from mastery (storing icicles) would be okay if (as mentioned above) the lowest icicle will be fired automaticly @ 5 stacks.

- Icy Veins need a rework or the glyph should be baseline and a the old baseline (+20% haste) should be a glyph (switch). We need more room for glyphs (make glyph of water elemental baseline would be another good thing).

- I don´t like the interaction between Icicles and Alter Time and Icicles and Icy Veins. Firing the weakest Icicle instead of the oldest would allow the frost mage to build up a decent Alter Time.

I like the idea and the approach, also the frosty topic of the icicles is much appreciated, but a lot of work has to be done!!

Submitted by Nathyiel on

I agree with most of Citizenpete (like always).

I have tested dummy and some pvp duel. I will test scenario and dungeon today, because they require a lot of target switching and aoe.

In PvP, most of the concern is about low Icicles and controlled burst.
For low Icicle, that are generated by MrBubble, they can be good for making pressure DPS and not being "naked" at the bursting moment.
For controlled burst, it's just totally the reverse of what have to be done.

  • Actually, the burst is done through Deep Freeze that give Mastery and Shatter to all spell.
  • on PTR, the burst give some Icycle to launch but most of the burst (IL spam) don't generate any charge.

A things that could be done could be to let IL generating Icicle, instead of liberating them. It can be done with inverting IL and FFB or with making IL stacking and adding a liberation spell.

Frostbolt's debuff is just a non sense. Scale ilevel in instanced PvP help to keep number inline and level 90 talent can be purged or is unusable. The debuff can be remove and Waterbolt & BF-FFB can be buffed.

BF-FFB need to be buffed.
In term of DPET, BF-FFB is better than Frostbolt because of T16's bonuses, Shatter and instant cast (out of Sinister proc & Time Warp). But with Icicle, raw damage count too and it's less than a critical Frostbolt.

  • If it generate Icicle (actually and Pete's proposition), it need to do better damage.
  • If it release Icicle (my proposition), it don't need it but it feel lacking in term of rotation.

For scaling, as long as Brain Freeze proc from mage's bomb, haste will reign.
T16's bonuses only increase the value of Brain Freeze proc, even if it's limited by low damage. Making stacking Icicle only increase Haste's value. This why I proposing to make Brain Freeze a passive ability on low cooldown that activate every 10s or 20s.

Another problem is that FoF-IL's DPS isn't by any stat at all now. FoF make it crit capped. gear make it haste capped and mastery ignore it completly. It really need to stack Icicle.
 

 



Submitted by Sombrelune on

It applies to a greater percentage of our damage when we are not moving and there is only one target.

But when there is more than 1 target regularly, and whe have to move, this percentage decrease dramatically. Yesterday in my spoils of pandaria tests, icicles was around 3% of my own dps ( less if we take into account the water elemental dps)

Even if we increase the rating per percentage point, it will not solve our issues, in today metagame : Movement, adds.  We will be stronger in an area where we are already very good : Patchwork fights. But these kinds of fight don't exist anymore. In simcraft results with patchwork settings, maybe we'll be fine, but in Tot or Soo ( where it matters), no.

Don' t get me wrong, I really like, the visual, but I need efficiency too, if I want arguments to play my favorite spec. I don't want to rule over fire ou arcane. I don't want to be a burden for my mates, neither. And If I'm more than 10% behind, I will be a burden for sure.

Still, I think icicles coud work if :

-frosbolt debuff is gone

-Ice lance become an icicle generator ( even if it is instead of FFB)

-when we reach 5 stacks of icicles, the weaker one and not the older one, is automatically launched

A new spell become the launcher instead of icelance ( I have a preference for fireblast or a new water elemental spell)

With those changes, the WE will become the automatics icicles launcher and " refiner". As soon as we will be at 5 stacks, weakers icicles will autoshoot to our target, thanks to his warterbolts autocast even if we must multidot via NT or stop dps. In pvp this will ensure that none of the generated icicles expired ( 15 sec) without being launched.

Our 5 stacks will preserve their power, for the right moment, it means, when will really decide to use them all together ( but not simultaneous), using the right spell.

Liv, you said that icicles is basically ignite but with the option to switch a little sustain for a litlle burst when you want. Right now it' wrong. I don't choose to launch, the  5 stacks.They autofire when i cast a spell i can't hold on forever. After the second fof charge I can't hold icelance anymore. So i don't feel that I have the mastery of this icicles. I just do that I already did, and nice graphics appears upon my head.

When I have 5 stacks I want to feel that I have a little power floatting upon me ready to strike when I WANT, and that, even if I don't launch them right now. They refine themselves,sharpening themseleves, launching regularly the weakers ones. 


Ice lance becoming a generator, it doesn't need a compensation for the frosbolt debuff. But if we glyph it, i think the icicle generated will have to store both damages.

If it is instead of FFB,  brainfreezed FFB will need a compensation for the loss of frostburn ( maybe 29% like icelance buff). With FFB not beeing a generator anymore, it will nip in the bud the idea of multidoting for FFB fishing with passive pets in PVP.

Frozen orb will preserve it utility . Right now in the ptr, it loose its "cooldown" status. When we are flooded with fof in aoe situations, we are worried that the only generator remaining is the weak waterbolts and that we spaming our icicle launchers.


Thx for reading and decoding my bad english.

Sombre .

Submitted by Citizenpete on

As you agree most of the time with me, I agree most of the time with you : )

FoF-IL really has no stat at the moment. As you said, it should generate Icicles and maybe still release them, but then we have again no real spell or mechanic in our arsenal for an on demand burst.

Pretty good idea to seperate BF from Bombs. I really don´t want to stack more haste in 5.4,

I don´t know what Blizzards objectives are, but letting IL or FFB releasing Icicles is a thing which (would) make it random. I would like to have a little bit of control. Just a little "earned on demand burst".

Submitted by Sombrelune on

I read you're comment on us ptr forum Lhivera, and you're right, "Frost blast" need to be off gcd to worth casting :

Frost blast : Replace Fire blast, instant, off gcd 40 yards ( the damage don't matter).

Your concern is that it is "too complicated for less-experienced players." I don't think so.

Experiences players would use it to have control over their burst.

Less-experienced players don't need to use it at all. Don't forget that there is an another way to launch icicles and that it is automatic past 5 charges.

It is exactly what blizzard like with talents choice : Easy passive way < more complicated active way

With this Frost blast, icelance generating icicles and frostbolt debuff gone I think that a least 70 of frost mage issues will be solve ( in both PVE and PVP)

Submitted by Gobzoot on

What about the line of sight features? Do the Icicles require facing on target?

> Can you build 5-stack, IL and run away while your Icicles continue to fire?

> Can you build 5-stack, IL and duck behind a corner?

Also:

> What if you IL a mob w/ 5-stack, and it dies before the 5 complete? Do they continue to pelt the dead corpse?

Submitted by Nathyiel on

answers :

1- yes
2- yes
3- they stop launching