Lhivera’s Library

Adventures in World of Warcraft, Dragon Age, the real world, and beyond

5.4 Frost Simulations

Saturday, August 3 2013 at 9:55am CDT

I've been running some Frost simulations to estimate the effect of Icicles on DPS and stat weights in 5.4. They're linked here so I can just post this one link from now on, and so that people can post comments on the results. If you see something that looks "off" about any of the results, please say so!


Submitted by ThunderRodent on

So overall the changes look to be a decent one-off single target and cleave buff.   But by itself is it enough to keep Frost in the ballpark of PVE endgame viability in the face of our haste and crit soft-caps?   Probably not, eh?

Submitted by Citizenpete on

Hey Lhiv,

just had a quick look over the simulations and the simulator is using Time Warp during Alter Time. Normally you should lose the buff after reset - what is not the case and normally you´re using Time Warp before AT to exend the buff by 6 seconds.

The difference between simulation and raid test is huge:

I`m using FoF Ice Lance for movement very often, what is of cource not the case here. So I´m wasting icicles pretty often (in a case where I have to dodge something before I continue my cleave fight or where I have to reach a cleave situation)

In raid tests, it was not uncommonly to cast FoF in a row (not building up icicles between cleaves as in the simulation)

In raid test it was pretty weird to deep freeze an add, snapshot it, hammer ice lance in it whithout gaining something from mastery. As arcane I would have more benefit from Ice Lance into a deep freeze than a frost mage.

Icicles and Waterbolt not stacking that Wrath of the Darkspear trinket is pretty odd and a huge disadvantage for frost. As Arcane I need only 1 AM cast for 6 stacks.

I really can´t understand why Ice Lance is not benefiting from mastery anymore, why frostfirebolt is such a weak spell now.

We will need different reforges for different encounter types, but all based by int gemming and Int / secondary (Maybe pure haste for animus and horridon style fights). This will make frost an elitist spec.

There were sometimes the case, where I have to think about what I shall do. For example "should I kill the add now pretty quickly or should I stack more icicles and have a bigger benefit with the next cleave?" This were thoughts I never ever had in mind in all my years as frost mage. Now we finally have a spec where scumbags benefit the most.

The beloved spec from cataclysm is gone completely together with it´s identity. I´m pretty disappointed. Dunno why Blizzard always wants to do their thing and not listen to the community. They ruined what was the fun aspect and evolved into trivial thing in a frost mage disguise.

If you want to take a look at the new frost mage here is a video. I´m beginning with Int and Int/haste, later I will reforge to haste 12900 > mastery > Crit

http://de.twitch.tv/citizenpete/b/439417217  New mastery in action (first pull @ 2:20)

Thanks for your effort to get simc working as fast as possible,


Submitted by Lhivera on

You're right, the sim isn't handling bloodlust + alter time correctly. I've submitted an issue report.

I've added a simple movement encounter (the sim will spend about 1/3 of its time moving).

Submitted by Citizenpete on

Thank you, is it possible to add a cleave fight with movement?

Submitted by Nathyiel on

Lhivera, I've send you my last testing for T16. I have join some optimization for the Action List. They aren't optimal but still better than the previous.

For the action list

  • the idea is to keep an FOF charge to use after every Brain Freeze.
  • it also clear FoF befor using Frozen orb (maybe something like ".ready" if it exist)

The first result that I obtain is that Haste value is increase by T16 bonuses because it's tied to Brain Freeze, making it on part with mastery.
I also confirm that theere's a breakpoint at 50% haste (FB cap with BL/sinister).

Something to test :

  • dps increase by bonus (2p/4p). They need to increase more than having off-set "warforged" piece.
  • stat weight and plot for T16 + cleave & movement
  • testing trinket but I think Amplification will be a must have.


Submitted by Nathyiel on

On your monday SimC, haste value have drop. Is it because of blood/AT correction ?

My remark is about the % of our damage that benefice from shatter.

#1 - Patchwerk + Invocation - http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lhiveras-library.com/files/frost_inv_p...

  • IL -- 16.5%
  • FFB -- 10.4%
  • Icicle from FFB -- 3.63% (13.8%*89.2/339.6)
  • Total : 30.53% of our total DPS

#2 - Cleave - http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lhiveras-library.com/files/frost_ptr_c...

  • IL -- 18.4%
  • FFB -- 7.9%
  • Icicle from FFB -- 4.24% (15.4%*84.9/308.3)
  • Total : 30.54% of our total DPS

#3 - with Frostburn - http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lhiveras-library.com/files/frost_inv.html & http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lhiveras-library.com/files/frost_cleav...

  • IL -- 20% / 21.3%
  • FFB -- 16.7% / 13.5%
  • Total : 36.7% / 34.8%

Conclusion : a lesser part of our DPS is shatter capped, resulting in an increase in Crit value. But it also explain why Amp trinket is less good than expected.
T16 will also reduce the number of FoF proc (T15 4p) by 12.1 (PW) & 10.4 (cleave), resulting in another drop of ~1.41%

Note : this can change soon because of the balance built in PTR.


Submitted by alia on

Lhivera, I love your dedicatoin to the Cause.  Keep on keepin on brother!